Am an I an Enneagram 8? What does it mean to be a Body type? What’s a good contrast between 8w7 and 8w9? How are self-preservation 8s, social 8s, and sexual 8s different from each other? This in-depth analysis answers all of your questions!
INSIDE THIS POST:
THE 8 AS A BODY TYPE
Body types experience life in terms of energetic output and the tension and friction that exists between themselves and everything else. It feels like the world bears down on them, determined to move them in ways they don’t want to move, so they must bring the energy required to push back. They know the pain that comes from doing things, and see life as a battleground in which they must defend their autonomy, lest others take control and leave them without options. A Body type never wants to be without control, choices, or the right to choose their own path and listen to their intuition.
8s are an impenetrable wall within the Enneagram, with enormous boundary enforcement. It doesn’t occur to them this is what they’re doing; they frame it in terms of “respect.” 8s think to be me, I must be happy, and to be happy, I must get what I want. This means they can’t let you push them around. Their body, mind, and the environment are theirs. They move you around in it, but you can’t move them. Their world isa battleground that invites them to put their huge energetic resources to use in reshaping it into what they want from it.
Where no threat exists, 8s don’t exert force. Power means you don’t have to announce it; you can show up and have people get out of your way, because they sense your intensity and willingness to escalate a situation to an uncomfortable (for them) level. 8s occupy turf and invite the world to take shape around them. They don’t need to say “get out of my chair” for others to know it belongs to them and get up.
8s want everything out in the open so they know what is possible from the environment; they hate wasted energy and don’t want to deal with hidden motivations. They will test your boundaries to know how much they can get away with and leave you in no doubt of where they stand. 8s rarely feel threatened, because they see the forceful anger that arises in them as an asset. They won’t stop pushing until they know where you stand and what you will fight for. And they’re not content to sit on the sidelines if power is theirs for the taking.
8s want to make an impact, to prove they were here and to leave the world changed from how they found it. They know if they want t
o accomplish this, they must do it with force and put their energy to good use. They’re the most active number on the Enneagram and have the least ability to hold back—everything they do is “massive.” Their humor is loud. Their lust intense. Their anger a raging volcano that consumes all in its path. To them, a fierce argument is foreplay. If they find something to hate, they want it out of their sight.
An 8 feels what they want is right, because they want it. It does not occur to them to listen to anything but the self, since only they know what they need and want. If others tell them that it’s wrong, an 8 dismisses the criticism or caution.
It doesn’t occur to an 8 to conform to anyone’s rules or listen to anyone who tells them how they “should” behave; how they behave comes from inside themselves, and their awareness of how easy it is to take advantage of others. Mature 8s put limits on themselves if they know they go too far, but scorn the idea they should live up to anyone’s standards but their own.
All of them are angry and need to conquer the world, to make up for the hurt inside that resents the reality they live in, one that does not allow them to be soft. The only way to survive is to ensure no one can touch you or get at your heart and to do what needs done. 8s are aware of their strength, spirit, rage, determination, and inability to back down. If there’s no resistance to them, they’re not living life to the fullest. 8s want a battle to fight, because it makes them feel alive.
8s put up strong boundaries to guard their heart from the pain of rejection or betrayal. They reject the idea any kind of vulnerability or tenderness exists in them and believe the world and others will abuse them if they show any weakness. If someone gets past their boundary and hurts them, 8s get furious with themselves for letting down their guard, and vow it won’t happen again. 8s lean into anger because it’s a useful emotion that makes them feel powerful and away from any feelings that feel too vulnerable or like someone has power over them.
They act first and use logic to back them up. 8s have a gut reaction that compels them to act, then use their logic to create strategies to get what they want, but don’t invite their feelings to come along for the ride. Emotions could get in the way or prevent them from doing what needs done. This means they are out of touch with their heart…
The 8w7
8w7s walk a line between their awareness of reality and what it asks of them (power and aggression), and their ability to plan the world they want to inhabit, which casts them and their dreams in a positive light. They believe they can do whatever they set out to do. Their positive self-regard gives them the confidence to tackle hard things, knowing their force and strategy will carry them forward.
They are preoccupied with control and expansive in their energy. It’s twice what anyone else has—they live and play hard, and aren’t aware of stomping on other people’s boundaries. They simply don’t notice them. They want to occupy enough space to give them their way in everything; life rarely feels challenging or stimulating enough, so they generate ways to keep it intense. 8w7s feel like they have everything they want, but can always get more. They chase anything that could fulfill their appetite for experiences and sensations, but rarely feel “full.” 8w7s who aren’t self-aware harm themselves with endless distractions, by provoking brawls, or overdoing everything (over-eating, drinking too much, starting fights, sleeping around, and showing aggression to others in ways that harm their chances of getting ahead in life). It’s hard for them to sit still without getting bored and needing to intensify a situation.
No other type can match their energy or understand their need to keep moving in search of what may quench their eternal thirst. 8w7s fight their way to the top and dominate in the field, then feel empty and look for something else to defeat. They compete hard against themselves and push themselves to greater challenges. They are very focused and forceful. As the old saying goes, “And Alexander [the Great] wept, seeing as he had no more worlds to conquer.”
They want to create a world that lives up to their huge desires and expectations, but whenever it isn’t possible, they’ll see themselves as a successful force within their corner of it. 8w7s dream big and cast themselves as the hero, the only person who can do and shape events the way they want. Their hidden sorrow that life doesn’t exist without pain and loss drives them to cope with an outrageous sense of humor, seeking intense experiences, or deciding to change reality by sheer force. They see lots of things as worth trying and hope that one of them will be satisfying.
The 8w9
The 8w9 is the fully embodied 8, but its internal energies are at odds. 8s want to power through situations and force the world to give way to them; 9s ignore what they don’t want to face in hopes it resolves itself without them needing to exert effort. 8s want intensity, but 9s want tranquility. This creates an 8 that wants and intends to get their way, but without exerting more energy than a situation requires; for others to move aside and not ask them to be larger, louder, or more assertive than necessary. They expect you to move aside for them and if you won’t, then they exert the energy required to remind you of your place. They avoid using excessive force if a small amount is sufficient. Like a grizzly bear in a cave, if you leave them alone, they won’t take any issue with you, but poke them and they will cut you down to size.
8w9s want to get their way without causing those around them to burden them with emotional uproar. They don’t want to be affected by anything without their consent, so they overreact to get people out of their way, knowing that showing them they can “escalate” to uncomfortable levels will warn them not to get in their way. 8w9s don’t see a point in getting upset if the situation doesn’t call for it, so their anger comes out with the purpose of changing whatever they hate about a situation, rather than constantly “leaks” the way a 8w7’s does.
They don’t intend to give their power away by letting others know what they are thinking or feeling, are very much “in their body,” and rarely waste words. 8w9s act with quiet but intentional force, applying pressure until the other person gives in. They are at home with chaos but don’t want to create it for its own sake; it is for a purpose. They hate to experience any disruptions intended to throw them off track or impede them, but don’t avoid conflict. They want how they handle it to put an end to it, so it need not disturb them a moment longer. 8w9s want to remain calm and unaffected by the world, but for it to give them what they want. Since they intend to win any battles they fight, they decide what is worth the effort of sustained pressure. They exert the effort required to defend their territory, or to keep others away so they can get things done. They block others’ attempts to influence them or change their stance by refusing to listen to them.
8w9s seldom resort to threats to achieve their desires or influence others. Silence is power for them. Folks get out of their chair, move aside, or make room for them, because of their expansive energy and the instinctive sense you can’t force them to do anything they don’t want to do. Power is being able to conquer a space with no effort. Their mere presence invites immediate retreat by owning the room, the yard, or the space in the parking lot.
Read the full profile, almost 9,000 words including self-work, about the Enneagram 8 in my book, 9 Kinds of Quirky.
Social Variants:
Since my book does not include social variant types, I recommend you purchase John Lucovich’s excellent and ground-breaking work on the topic. You can read more of his content here.
Social variants determine how we respond to the world around us and where our major priorities in life lie. Attentiveness to bonding, social responsibilities, and how we ‘appear’ to others is in the realm of social (soc). Survival, fulfilling all of one’s needs, and a focus on ensuring one always has enough resources for a comfortable life is self-preservation (sp). Sexual displays, competing for attention, being like a moth to a flame in your pursuit of another person, or competing for a mate falls under the realm of sexual (sx). Read through each to determine which resonates the most with you.
The Self Preservation 8
Self-Preservation Eights tend to be excessive and forceful in the pursuit of what they believe supports physical well-being. This amounts to an excessive preoccupation with autonomy. They do not want to have to answer to others, and they aim to be self-reliant above all.
Self-Preservation Eights spend a great deal of energy trying to make money or to find a “sure thing” in terms of a desired lifestyle, even if they were already born into privilege. There can be an attitude of “getting mine,” with a propensity to see others’ success and well-being as a threat or affront to their own. They can become controlling about their resources and fight off any perceived attempt to wield any influence over them, even to the point of seeing any form of compromise with others as a personal infringement. Fixated Self-Preservation Eights push hard for their desired vision of autonomy and prosperity, but often at great cost to their relationships and physical and emotional health. They’re likely to regularly provoke power struggles and conflict related to carving out their own way of life. This may mean pushing up against others in business dealings, competition, athletics, or acquisitions, treating life as a battle or game.
For all the intensity typically displayed in Eights, they’re actually pushing up against an inner sense of deadening, a lack of being touched by their experience, so the more entranced a Self-Preservation Eight, the less they’re able to directly register impressions of well-being. This results in being so caught up in self-assertion and struggle that they become physically neglectful or even reckless about their own well-being.
The Social Eight
Social Eights are looking for the experience of Essential Power through relationships and having a strong influence on other people. Social Eights tend to have immense energy for other people and tend to be the most personable, approachable Eights. They are classic protectors and find fulfillment in mentoring, advocating for others, and helping others find their own power.
Social Eights want to make a big splash within their community, to impact friends and family alike. This desire can be harnessed positively or negatively, for being of service to others or for megalomaniacal fantasies, control, manipulation underpinned by a sense of entitlement to others’ respect and attention.
Social Eights stave off fears of abandonment and ostracization by being the instigating centerpiece or ringleader that provides their group, organization, family, or friends a sense of meaning or mission. They often set agendas for others for the purpose of keeping people together, which results in them becoming de facto leaders. However, they will unconsciously assume others are rejecting them with the same ferocity they are rejecting their own vulnerability, and in place of being able to maintain relationships on the basis of personal connection, they will use provocation, stirring up drama, and forcing their way into others lives as a way to remain on others’ social radar.
The Sexual 8
Sexual Eights can be excessively forceful in capturing the interest of the object of their desire. They put a great deal of effort toward amplifying their impact on the object of desire from the assumption that fully capturing their beloved’s attention is the way to ensure that attraction is on their terms. While Self-Preservation Eights have very solid boundaries and Social Eights tend to hold a strong social “field,” Sexual Eights have a more permeable boundary because of the Sexual Drive’s responsiveness to chemistry and disposition of relenting to attraction. It gives the usual charisma of Eights a hint of self-consciousness and adds receptivity to chemistry, which is shared with only a select few.
As much as Sexual Eights want to “hook” someone, a fear of rejection or of being controlled by their own desire can motivate this Instinctual Type to provocatively invite rejection or disinterest, or to preemptively end relationships in order to make sure rejection is under their control. Sexual Eights avoid feeling rejection or a lack of reciprocated attraction on the basis of traits and qualities close to their hearts, so they often make a big display of being too much to handle, an “excuse” with which they can easily write off their failure to gain the interest they’re looking for. When in a relationship, Sexual Eights have a propensity to provoke reactions from a partner in order to feel connected in place of authentic relating. Control, domination, possessiveness, entitlement, and testing their romantic interest’s time and emotional and physical “tolerance” are common in entranced Sexual Eights.
Influences on MBTI Types:
Editor’s Note: Because of its hedonistic nature and aggression, introverts who are feeling types are not 8s. You may, however, be a 9w8.
ISTJ: more aggressive and confrontational than other ISTJ Enneagram types, prone to being direct when others are not pulling their weight in common areas (work, school, etc), may develop too-rigid of black and white thinking, based on factual evidence and influenced by personal experiences (Si/Te/Fi, with inferior Ne lack of development / 8 blocking Ne’s natural desire to “open up to other possible interpretations”).
ESTJ: the 8 builds on the ESTJ’s natural desire to show competency and strong leadership in the outside world, and will shift the ESTJ into a strong patriarch / matriarch position over their family unit (Si “roles”). They will be aggressively protective of themselves and others “in their tribe,” while being intolerant / frustrated by family members who are not aggressive enough in being industrious or standing up for themselves (their expectations may be too high for their kids, which ties in to lower Fi development / the 8’s lack of being in touch with their sensitive side).
INTJ: a more aggressive and confrontational INTJ than others, who builds up and relies on their inferior Se when tackling the 8’s need for “indulgence” – may be more proactive in chasing what they want, in involving oneself in the external environment, in tackling challenges to prove they can do it, and in their sexual appetites. May not seek authority positions, but also will refuse to follow incompetent leadership, and be reckless under pressure.
ENTJ: the energetic visionary who fills the room, who suffers no fools, and who may have a problem with grinding the opposition into dust in their pursuit of fulfillment. The 8 would play heavily into tert-Se “desires” and make them a highly energetic, insatiable type prone to over-excess; the inferior Fi might, as in the ESTJ, make their expectations for family members / children / employees higher than what they are capable of (paired with Ni’s tendency toward grand-scale expectations), while the 8 would play off Ni-perceptions in contributing to a black and white worldview.
ESTP: an aggressive, physically imposing, confrontational, argumentative combination, who does not believe in backing away from a fight, literal or figurative, whose lower Ni development helps him/her spot people who are weak or incompetent; prone to not mincing words, challenging authority figures, and often undertakes leadership to appease the public’s general welfare (tert-Fe, which can often make the ESTP-8 “charming” and offset the tough edge). (See: Winston Churchill.)
ISTP: inferior Fe would make this ISTP even more out of touch with how people perceive them and how to soften the blow than other ISTP Enneagram combinations; they would see no reason for social appropriateness and instead, channel their intense energy into external projects. Often sharp-tongued and unable or unwilling to let faulty thinking go unchallenged. Has absolute faith in their Ti/Ni insights, may run the risk of a lack of nuance or in understanding emotional motivators, and have little respect for irrational or sensitive people.
ESFP: develops a strong tert-Te in order to achieve things in the outside world, is often confident, self-assertive, and prone to easy boredom; likes to seek out constant challenges at work / school / their personal life, and may create drama where there is none to self-entertain; values a few people very much (especially if they identify with them through Fi) and will champion them with total conviction. Quick to react, may dislike or hide their own emotions / suppress them, or learn to loop to avoid them, and often out of touch with the long-term consequences of their blow-up.
ENTP: Ne shapes the 8 into the realm of the abstract, where they become combative and confrontational when it comes to ideas, defending them, and standing on rational ground; often innovative and successful if they can harness their power toward finishing a project rather than abandoning it; tert-Fe lends them a charm that helps soften the brutal aggression, but also keeps them out of touch with their emotions in combination with the 8’s desire to seem “tough”; often scorns “weak,” or “emotional” types and individuals; often pursues sensory pleasures more than the other Ne-dom types and over-indulges due to lack of Si inner body awareness.
ENFJ: an aggressive, charming combination who sees social wrongs and challenges them head-on, without fear, prone to over-indulgences of excess through tert-Se, who has a vision for a group of people, and leads them through competency, bombastic speaking skills, and sheer presence; Fe-dom would both soften the 8’s bluntness and aim it squarely at those the ENFJ feels are responsible for the current abuses. Inferior Ti issues would come from a lack of ability to self-analyze, or sense when their FeNi conclusions are too rigid. (See: Martin Luther King Jr.)
ESFJ: would use their Fe-dom to recruit others to common causes for the betterment of society, and show aggression when challenging anyone who abuses their position of power and against injustices; Si’s influence would make the 8 care more about immediate impact, rather than far-reaching influences, and their positions would be strongly-expressed but not always fully fleshed out on a systematic level (inferior Ti).
ENFP: has much more aggression than the other ENFPs, whose Ne/Fi makes them conflict-avoiding; will deliberately challenge people and use Ne/Te to rip holes in their arguments and/or underline more successful tactics; develops Te to prove competent in the outside world, may resist and /or avoid Fi development and as a result, be out of touch with their true desires and gentler self; like the ENTP, prone to aiming their energy into the abstract, and in aggressively defending, promoting, and actualizing new ideas. May try to dampen their natural open-mindedness, and develop rigid moral views as a result (indecisiveness is weakness!).
